Showing posts with label NC IRV pilot extension. Show all posts
Showing posts with label NC IRV pilot extension. Show all posts

Wednesday, May 27, 2009

What happened to ncvotes123 sites?

FairVote and other pro-IRV groups used to host a site that either went by ncvotes123.com or ncvotes123org.

When you go to ncvotes123.com, you get directed to the following site: http://sites.securepaynet.net/redirect_0.html

The page cannot be found

The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

Please try the following:

  • Make sure that the Web site address displayed in the address bar of your browser is spelled and formatted correctly.
  • If you reached this page by clicking a link, contact the Web site administrator to alert them that the link is incorrectly formatted.
  • Click the Back button to try another link.

HTTP Error 404 - File or directory not found.
Internet Information Services (IIS)


Technical Information (for support personnel)

  • Go to Microsoft Product Support Services and perform a title search for the words HTTP and 404.
  • Open IIS Help, which is accessible in IIS Manager (inetmgr), and search for topics titled Web Site Setup, Common Administrative Tasks, and About Custom Error Messages.
If you go to ncvotes123.org, you get redirected to this site:

This site is currently unavailable.

If you are the owner of this site, please contact us at 1-480-505-8855 at your earliest convenience.

Does this mean that FairVote and other IRV advocates have thrown in the towel? I hope so - I have some home-improvement work to get caught up on.

But I somehow doubt it - eternal vigilance is the price of liberty!

Saturday, May 9, 2009

Only one IRV in NC for 2009!

On April 29, the Cary News published a guest column written by Don Hyatt and myself. They wanted it to be between 500 and 600 words. We submitted a little more than 600 words, and they whittled it down even more.

Here is a link to the published article - http://www.carynews.com/opinion/story/12323.html

In our opinion: IRV too risky

By Chris Telesca and Don Hyatt
The Cary Town Council is considering whether or not to be the subject of another election experiment with Instant Runoff Voting for the October 2009 election. It’s time for Cary and the rest of North Carolina to say “no” to IRV.

Cary has participated in dubious election experiments before. In 2002, hundreds of votes were lost in the nation’s first reported case of touch-screen voting machines failing to report election votes.

Even before Cary voted in May 2007 to pilot IRV, the State Board knew it was too risky to use in 2008 elections because state law and federal regulations require using only certified voting systems to tabulate IRV.

The 2007 Cary IRV pilot program was largely managed by IRV advocacy groups, with no advance guidelines. Some voter education volunteers admit deviating from Election Board instructions to create a more positive outcome on the exit poll surveys — also conducted by IRV advocates.

The Wake Board of Elections couldn’t follow simple IRV hand tabulation procedures. Ballots were mis-sorted, simple calculator mistakes were made and a non-public recount turned up missing votes. The winner did not receive the 50 percent plus one vote majority advocates claimed IRV would ensure in a single election.

There has been no analysis of the 2007 pilot. The proffered reason given for extending the pilot beyond 2008 was cost savings, even though fiscal studies done by other jurisdictions show IRV elections cost more than traditional election methods.

The original IRV pilot extension bill had the same flaws as the first pilot program. Election integrity groups requested an improvement which required “… the pilot program shall be conducted according to … standards consistent with general election law …” Unfortunately, this legislative requirement has not been met.

After passage, election integrity advocates pointed out how IRV conflicts with general election law not written with IRV in mind, and recommended ways to make IRV comply with general election law. The State Board ignored those recommendations and approved IRV guidelines that conflict with general election laws.

North Carolina and other states have laws requiring that votes be counted where cast until the count is completed to prevent ballot tampering. But State Board IRV guidelines call for partial ballot counting at polling places, then moving the ballots to a central location for further counting. The federal Help America Vote Act requires voters be notified of over-votes before a ballot is cast. Our voting system can’t notify voters of second and third column over-votes on IRV ballots.

From early 2007 through January 2009, State Board members and staff claimed we needed federally certified software to automate IRV tabulations. The State Board recently developed automated procedures they now claim need no federal certification. Those procedures were developed with no input from election equipment vendor ES&S. Do the new IRV procedures violate any contracts, warranties or other agreements with ES&S? Will Cary voters be required to foot the bill in the event of election problems?

The Cary Town Council needs to vote “no” on another IRV pilot and keep traditional runoff elections if needed. Our legislature’s Election Oversight Committee should study the 2007 IRV experiment and other IRV elections more fully before allowing any more communities to experiment with America’s right to vote.

Chris Telesca lives in Raleigh. Don Hyatt lives in Cary.
IRV was not on the agenda for the Cary Town Council meeting for April 30, 2009. One of the IRV guidelines required:
CI 1
The governing board of a jurisdiction choosing to participate in the IRV pilot must make that decision no later than two months before the beginning of the filing period for offices in that election.
And since May 6, 2009 was the 60-day cut-off period for the 2009 election filing period beginning July 1, 2009, IRV was essentially dead in Cary for 2009. Only one other NC municipality - Hendersonville - voted to take part in the 2009-2011 IRV pilot extension.

And since IRV is too risky to use in an even-year federal election, I doubt anyone will try and bring it forth for consideration in 2010. With two communities using it in 2007, and only one in 2009, that probably means no one will use it in 2011. I say "probably" because it honestly depends on what happens with the Hendersonville elections. If they don't need to tabulate the votes beyond the 1st column, the pro-IRV crowd will probably say they loved it in Hendersonville. IRV will tank for sure in Hendersonville if they do have to tabulate those other votes, because it will be so complex no one who understands it will like it.

Tuesday, April 7, 2009

Durham council rejects both plurality and IRV!

I attended the Durham City Council meeting last night where they were going to discuss changing their electoral system from nonpartisan primary and general election to a nonpartisan plurality.

Now I have written that if a community is going to change, I prefer plurality over IRV for sure. But I will admit that I like more elections rather than fewer - and my understanding of how Durham's system works is the primary and general election functions something like a general election and a runoff. And I favor traditional runoffs - like Roberts Rules of Order favor them - over Preferential Voting (aka IRV/RCV/STV).

Stella Adams - NCDP First Vice Chair - said she had no problems with Plurality elections, but said she didn't like IRV and would sue if Durham tried to impose IRV elections on her. She'll have good company - and lots of help on her lawsuit (guess who?)

Some people did suggest IRV, but those who did pretty much got it wrong. A student from the Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy gave an entertaining presentation about the benefits of IRV - but he got some pretty important details wrong. He left the impression that Cary uses IRV when they do not. Cary participated in the pilot in 2007 and has not decided whether or not to participate in the 2009 pilot. It looks like they won't do it - even with Erv Portman dragging it back out every meeting.

I must confess that I secretly feel that Erv's actions are not that he really believes in IRV as an election method. I feel it's a form political narcissism - IRV is pronounced the same way that his first name (Erv) is pronounced. So for Erv, it's not like looking into a mirror and seeing his own reflection (which got Narcissus into trouble) but like listening to your own name being called over and over and OVER again (like Cary IRV supporters kept pronouncing IRV as one word, not spelling it out).

The Sanford Institute student also got it wrong when he used two other speakers (who signed up right behind him and ceded their time to him so he could speak for longer than 2 minutes - good trick which I must remember for future meetings - but isn't that like giving someone else your vote?) to demonstrate how easy IRV elections are. He claimed that in an election of three candidates where there were a total of 50,000 votes - one candidate got 20,000 votes, another got 18,000 and a third got 12,000. Since no one got 50% plus one vote, IRV would allow the 12,000 first column votes for the loser to to transfer to the top two candidates - 10,000 to the first candidate (giving him a total of 28,000) and 2,000 to the second (for 20,000)- allowing the candidate with 28,000 votes to win with a majority.

Problem with those simple examples is that there is never 100% participation in the subsequent rounds.

In real life IRV elections, not enough voters cast votes in the subsequent columns to give the candidate a real majority of the total first column votes. In Burlington VT - where they
love IRV - 16.5% of the voters didn't go beyond the first column and 37.8% didn't vote beyond the second column. As has happened in damn near ALL the IRV elections across the country. In Cary, Don Frantz won the election with only 1401 votes out of 3022 first-column votes cast - not 50% plus one vote.

Which is probably why some IRV supporters are not claiming IRV ensures majority wins - but better plurality wins. Geeze - talking out of both sides of your mouth!

What's the point of doing IRV if all you are doing is shooting for the better plurality if it always costs more up front and might not be needed?

So I am glad that Durham decided to stick with primaries and general elections. If they had to change things, I'd prefer a simpler plurality election over IRV anyday!

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1475406.html

Durham council lets elections be

Change to plurality system rejected

DURHAM - After 45 minutes of public comment and discussion, Durham's City Council voted to leave its electoral system alone.

In a 7-0 vote that came during halftime of the NCAA championship game, the council rejected a proposal to switch its municipal elections from a nonpartisan primary and general election format to a nonpartisan plurality.

The Durham County Board of Elections had proposed the change as a cost-saving measure, estimating it would save city taxpayers between $170,000 and $185,000 each election year by eliminating one round of voting.

"Money isn't everything," said Mayor Pro Tem Cora Cole-McFadden, who moved to keep the city's elections just as they are.

Citizen comment before the vote was almost unanimously opposed to a change.

"Just vote it down. It's not going to help anybody," said Lavonia Allison, president of the Durham Committee on the Affairs of Black People.

"It's sad to put a price tag on our future," said Carolyn Harris. "Let's think about our freedom."

Board of Elections Chairman Ronald Gregory defended plurality as "a method that is employed successfully" in many other communities. But Mayor Bill Bell said he had heard no wish for a change from citizens.

"I haven't seen any outcry, any groundswell," he said. "In the face of that overwhelming majority [of speaker opposition], I'm comfortable with the motion that's on the floor" to stay with the present method.

While speakers were overwhelmingly against plurality elections, some did suggest Durham consider the "instant-runoff" system, under which voters rank candidates in order of first, second and third preference.

If no candidate wins a majority, a winner is declared by a combination of preference.

Victoria Peterson, a frequent, if unsuccessful, candidate for public office in Durham, added her voice to those opposing plurality elections, but she took her opportunity at the microphone to support merging the city and county governments.

She also called for raising City Council salaries to at least $32,000 a year, which she said would be equivalent to pay for a full-time job.

"It's so unfair to work these individuals so hard, and we only pay them, what?" she said.

Told council members' pay is about $18,000 per year, Peterson said, "That is embarrassing."